Friday Forum: Does Ethical Vegetarianism Exist?

By Published On: 7 March 2014Last Updated: 17 January 2017

Life can be complicated and veganism is no exception. So, we decided to have an open forum to talk about these complications and you're invited.

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FridayForum

Going vegan is easy; living vegan in a world that isn’t designed for you can be a challenge.  Part of veganism is diet, of course, but finding vegan food has never been easier.  The other part of veganism is unlearning learned behavior- boycotting zoos, circuses, and removing animals from our closet, for example.  It’s the details of veganism.  And herein lies what can be some pretty big challenges for a lot of people.  Life can be complicated and veganism is no exception.

So, we decided to have an open forum on some of these topics or topics we find in the news.  Here’s what we had to say; chime in with your own thoughts in the comments.  Let’s create dialogue with many different perspectives that we can all benefit from.

Our first question was inspired by the headline “Ethical Vegetarian Exists On Cheese Pizza for 25 Years”:

What’s your take on Ethical Vegetarianism?

I was an ethical vegetarian once, or so I thought.  I ate dairy, unaware of how my choice cost animals their lives, while at the same time advocating for their rights.  Really I was an omnivore who thought she was being ethical.  After all, one doesn’t have to eat animals to support industries that raise, slaughter, and profit from their deaths.  Eventually I learned the truth and evolved.  I acknowledge that there is good that comes from being a vegetarian– any reduction in killing is good, but I don’t advocate for the reduction of killing.  Educating people about the lives of animals is vital as advocates, as is sharing a consistent vegan message.  – KD

I understand that one may stop eating meat because he loves animals. I was close friends with an ethical vegetarian in high school, before the topic of animal rights even made its way into my blocked brain. But in today’s world, we’re lucky enough to have access to information that tells us that the harvesting of an animal’s secretions is just as bad, if not worse than, the act of killing for meat itself. I would hope that anyone who starts a compassionate journey never stops educating themselves on the reasons why their ethical choices matter most. – Daria

 

Idaho is the latest State to enact “ag-gag” laws. Dairy is Idaho’s number one agricultural commodity, and it ranks #3 in the country for milk production. I think that speaks volumes as to whether or not a vegetarian diet is “ethical.” – Anya

 

 

I don’t like assholes. So, as a general (ethical) rule, I try not to be one. Compassion is the antidote to many societal ills, so every day I keep my eyes open to support efforts that are transforming our local and larger communities into more livable places for all beings. I strive to live free of animal and environmental exploitation, right down to my boots. I fuel and cover my body with plant-based, sustainable products, in hopes that I am part of a transformation into a more compassionate world. – Amy

 

I used to be an “ethical vegetarian.” My answers to full-on vegan friends were typical answers like, “I could never give up those products/it’s not for me.” They were so nice to me then, because if I’d go back in time I’d slap myself for saying such things. The abuse of dairy mothers, veal, the abuse of egg-laying hens and the treatment of male chicks, these are just some of the reasons. Plus let’s be real, the alternatives are better and have none of the fat or cholesterol.  And for the record, “humane dairy” doesn’t cut it, either. – Allyson

 

“Ethical vegetarian” is somewhat an oxymoron in that once someone truly sees and understands at least the overall farm-factory system in this country, it takes some moral sleight-of-hand to stop simply eating the flesh of animals, while continuing to consume their by-products. The reality is that dairy cows and laying chickens are treated every bit as horribly as their fellow creatures being slaughtered for food. I believe any reduction in consuming animals is better than none, but that the ‘ethical’ identification is faulty in that it doesn’t address the entire issue of animal exploitation, even at just the food level. – Linden

 

Do you have a question or topic you’d like to have answered or discussed?  Simply email us.

6 Comments

  1. […] I was an ethical vegetarian once, or so I thought. I ate dairy, unaware of how my choice cost animals their lives, while at the same time advocating for their rights. Really I was an omnivore who thought she was being ethical.  […]

  2. The Hill March 8, 2014 at 8:17 pm - Reply

    I did not know that chickens eat unfertilized eggs. Thanks for the info. It’s disturbing that we are brought up to see ‘happy’ farms in fiction, so it just seems natural that humans eat the byproducts of animals with no hint of how or why these products exist in the first place. I have seen self-sufficient people own goats for the milk, which I’ve always found confusing – how does that work? Goats aren’t milk-machines. There must have been a baby at some point. But no one mentions that part.

    As for animals not wanting to live with humans by choice (I have heard it said that historically the cat is the only animal that domesticated itself) it would be better and right for animals to be wild, or rather, to be free, but with the world as it is now and the short life expectancy of wild animals, I wonder which is worse. At least an animal in domesticity is *safe* (I know that isn’t always true either). As I drive to work and see so many dead foxes and the occasional badger by the side of the road, and I think of what else is being done and has been done to these two wonderful creatures what with culls and blood sports over the years, and I recall what I have seen and read of these animals in sanctuaries – their intelligent, loving, friendly behaviour, sometimes I wish they had been one of the random species that we decided to domesticate.

  3. The Hill March 8, 2014 at 6:14 am - Reply

    I agree with what you’ve said here. I *was* an ethical vegetarian, but that turned out to mean I was an ignorant vegetarian. Now I am an ethical vegan (and just a side note, but I have so no interest in non-ethical vegans – isn’t that just dieting? Why do they get to use the same word?) People who claim to be animal lovers but still actually eat them or are funding their abuse baffle me. Although even being vegan doesn’t mean you’re not funding something bad – what with companies being owned by different companies and so forth, but we do what we can.

    What I am interested in knowing however is is there a humane version of the dairy industry. Say for example you were a vegetarian who had your own chickens or goat or something, so you looked after them as you would a pet – if you then consumed their eggs or milk, and didn’t abduct or kill their children or have them killed when they no longer produced, would that be ethical vegetarianism/humane dairy?

    • KD Traegner March 8, 2014 at 10:39 am - Reply

      @The Hill, I don’t doubt that there are humans that can care for chicken or goats kindly, I’ve seen it firsthand at animal sanctuaries. But taking their eggs or milk (while treating them kindly) is still problematic in many ways. As you mentioned, mothers only produce milk right after she’s given birth. If we take her milk, we are taking milk from her baby that needs it to live. How are the mothers getting pregnant? Since we wouldn’t kill the animals or the offspring- how would one care for the parents and an infinite amount of offspring (and their offspring) for the entire length of their natural lives?

      Chickens eat unfertilized eggs to help them replenish the nutrients they lose when laying eggs, they need them more than we do. If we are going to treat animals as individuals with their own interests then we must consider that these animals wouldn’t want to live with us at all (whether we are kind or not). And if they had to due to circumstance then, at minimum, we should allow the mothers to keep their milk/eggs. Thank you so much for the thoughtful comment, I appreciate the discussion :)

  4. Lee Hall March 7, 2014 at 8:00 pm - Reply

    I consider myself an ethical vegetarian. I’m vegan.

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HELLO! I'm KD Angle-Traegner.

Writer, activist, and founder of Four Urban Paws Sanctuary. I’m on a mission to help people live a vegan life. Read more about KD…

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